Don't try to counter with stock levels argument as that is more convoluted, and given the current economic debacle's effect on our stock price..I understand that folks want to be Senior this, and Principal that but the truth is that it is mostly a fetish for some big sounding titles. But if your manager is undervaluing your work, and *that* is the factor that is making you unhappy, you can fix that. Are you sure you know what your boss wants? I used to work in the OneCare team. Joined MCS at level 60 and was immediately told that L61 would be years away. I started at 59 and just got promoted to 63 a couple months ago. Ah, dude, my boss is in the way of my promotion. Great topic. Senior->principal->partner are the level bands, 63/64->65/66/67, 68/69/70. It's really not that complicated. I definitely want to read more soon.Sincerely yoursSteave Markson. The job level for Technical Fellow starts at 80 and goes beyond. That manager was (in my and many others' opinions) an incompetent, non-technical "manager" who was incapable of recognizing people's talent and contributions. SQL is one of the groups that has consistently delivered quality and growth. weeks to find another position within the company, otherwise they are laid off.Think that's known as a "RIF" not a "layoff" butwhat do I know? You havent [sic] seen nothing [sic] yet. Find the right team and manager.2. Yes, "soft skills" count. Buy a Principal a coffee. They can be wrong about exactly what these flaws are, but they aren't wrong that you are flawed. Thanks for starting this. Know when your market worth changes with our verified salaries newsletter, See exactly how much your competitors pay. similar to maybe how EY says senior manager is Director (pwc, kpmg) equivalent. Only 1 of the 4 [sic]s were legitimate. I know we have had some huge improvements in the last few years in that regard, but we are really still way far behind, and I as a male employee, I know that very well, and I have seen many instances of female super stars de-emphasized in favor of a less-achieving, less-talented male team member. Its UI is fundamentally incoherent, showing probably the worst case of design-by-committee since the control room at Three Mile Island. They didn't want to plateau, but that is just where they were given MS talent pool. Eventually, their team will remove itself from his control through internal transfers to teams with better managers, and the asshole ends up getting canned in a re-org if he doesn't see the writing on the wall and use his Apple resume entry to jump to some other company.The fact that you praise someone for "junk yard dog mode" shows me that Microsoft has a fundamentally broken corporate culture, and that you are part of the problem.-jcr, Think of the guy in the other companyI don't like where this is goingThat is the guy to beat.No, No, NO!Think of the customer, not the competition! How long do people usually sit at L62 in MCS? I influenced the features, I lended my expertise on them, and I learned about the customer - all this way before the spec'ing phase. Microsoft How do levels compare? If you're not an Absolutely! Entry level (428) Associate (378) Mid-Senior level (3,385) Director (2,581) Done . because I have never seen the above formula fail with me in many years or people I know (a sample set of hundreds of person-years), I would agree, right now, level is deflated, 64, and 65 are real barriers, and salary level expand as well. I heard that promotion budgets are significantly reduced at below 65 level. That's awesome. If you are working at Microsoft, plan well to climb up the job ladder. .css-1odorsr{display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}.css-1ln5qhx{-webkit-text-decoration:none;text-decoration:none;display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}.css-1dmvvgc{margin:0;color:#0060b9;-webkit-text-decoration:none;text-decoration:none;display:-webkit-inline-box;display:-webkit-inline-flex;display:-ms-inline-flexbox;display:inline-flex;-webkit-align-items:center;-webkit-box-align:center;-ms-flex-align:center;align-items:center;font-weight:700;}Get your salary negotiated .css-1npej63{-webkit-user-select:none;-moz-user-select:none;-ms-user-select:none;user-select:none;width:1em;height:1em;display:inline-block;fill:currentColor;-webkit-flex-shrink:0;-ms-flex-negative:0;flex-shrink:0;-webkit-transition:fill 200ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0, 0.2, 1) 0ms;transition:fill 200ms cubic-bezier(0.4, 0, 0.2, 1) 0ms;font-size:1.25rem;margin-left:-4px;}or your resume reviewed by the real experts - recruiters who do it daily. Averages based on self-reported salaries. Ive seen many people who didnt quite fit at MS go off and be very successful at other companies, starting their own biz, changing careers, by finding a better fit for themselves. Candidates with evidence of effective teaching will be given preference. Paradigm Shift: In order to achieve the next level of competence to some extent you need to temporarily let go of some of your hard gained skills in order to make the leap and try some new things. I started in 2001 @ L62. These posts are provided "as-is" with no warranties and confer no rights. The current distribution is simply pathetic.. You want to be more efficient, smarter than him. Mini, all those aspects you list are also present at L62, L65, etc. The second was threat (I have a serious offer outside the company that I am taking). I'm not talking about "managing up" (though that helps a little if done properly) but it's all about understanding your manager and skip manager's priorities and proactively succeeding in those areas. Don't do this point blank and for no apparent reason, but your manager has to be aware that at all times you're working towards your next promo, be aware of your results, be aware of the things you need to do to get there, and make YOU and HIS MANAGER aware of those things. "You might be too smart or have ideas that come from somewhere outside of Redmond which makes you very dangerous and not Microsoft material. That is, its hard to define, but I know it when I see it. You should NOT be looking to get more money to stay in a job you don't like. in my previous post i should have included a link to our internal mentor site for finding a mentor. While I was pleased with the attention, I was also rather upset. No, never: now, going back to that <> question above: if your boss is answering "No, never" then this is a red-alert moment for you. The biggest lesson I learned here was how to work *with* other teams, even when I thought they weren't very good and even when our purposes didn't align. However, I think this is the first point where we see a non-trivial number of folks plateau. .css-1uhsr4o{margin-right:8px;}Get Paid, Not Played. Contributed and exceeded in two roles - getting G-Star, then moved to another team with clear headroom and again, exceeded all commits and moved to L64. Ready? A) What is the market facing title for L66 and above levels at Microsoft?B) What is the equivalent at Microsoft of Amazon L7?C) Rank the below titles at Microsoft in decreasing order of seniority: e.gPrincipal > Senior Director > Director > Senior Manager > Partner, Go to company page We have covered both technical and management track at Microsoft. Aren't those the things you are best at? Browse all Microsoft salaries . My work affected hundreds of developers in our org. How long do people usually sit at L62 in MCS? Say B.In a perfect case, B will have 10 devs to transfer to A but when that happen B will be left with 5 testers and 2 PMs. New shiny brain up and working now. This is something that should happen on an ongoing basis.Unfortunately, it doesnt happen, and that is what frustrates a lot of people.Saying that you dont know what exactly an L63 is, but will know one when you see him is a big cop-out. To change Microsoft so that it is small and efficient, and therefore more in line with your thinking?Are you changing your stance because you're leaving the 'hoi polloi' behind? Director of Business Development for ATALIAN Global Services, in a senior leadership role based in Singapore driving sustainable growth in Asia. (Summarized: Don't ever let your boss be frightened that you'll make him/her look bad. Up or out as they say.I found a niche I was happy in. Director can be just principal in sales or marketing. I've been 3.5 years at 62 and re-orged every year in mobile.Any ideas on how to carry greats results of one role into another through a re-org. So, for those of you who are in orgs where it's 'easy' to get to L63 or L64 - think about transferring out BEFORE you get too high a level and paint yourself into a corner. I /like/ OneCare. For some teams - especially those like Office with few departures release-to-release resulting in level compression - that's a rough bunch. Somebody help me out here. Discussion: First off, I'm going to be hard-core about comments here. If you do not market yourself well, even if you are a superstar here at MSFT, your achievements might just go unrecognized (or they might be selectively recognized). A Senior Director gets a basic salary package of $190,000, which gets as high . >Apple's about to ship Snow Leopard with no new features. And to your boss. Experienced sales manager with skills in strategy, lead of direct reports, developing sales forecasts, products pricing and launching new products to the marketplace.<br>Proven abilities to manage key account relationships and large-scale projects.<br>Experienced in presenting to executive senior management, meeting with customers at CxO level and coordinating salesmen's Activities.<br><br . So most new hires at MS are L63 by default and they obviously don't have to work at it :).I actually find the content of this post to be superficial, fairly naive and not reflective of my experience having moved through the ranks from 59 to >65.I would not give most of this advice to our campus hires as any kind of roadmap. on this one. May 2008: Gold Star. There may be multiple reasons for pay differences - one of which is a small number of salaries submitted per job. Granted, you have to live in the greater NYC area, but it's a great place to be. If you're saying "Ah, dude, my boss is in the way of my promotion" then all I have to say is "Duuuude, your boss is the way to your promotion." My management tells me that this is normal and 2 years is "aggressive", but this is getting frustrating for me. The PM team loved having my technical expertise freely available, and I actually really like designing features too.Anyway, two simple things, but I think what Mini said about not doing this IN ORDER to get promoted is key. Just pick one Job id, prepare for it and then go for internal. Understand that promos aren't an exact formula. If you were in the running your manager would have told you / asked for ammunition by now. L63 guys are supposed to influence their entire skip level org. They know that if the team does well, they will do fine.5. Let's Hear it for the Girl! Eventually you have to make that leap or you arent ever going to get your hands on that other bar. There are not a lot of options at that point. "a HR manager" is acceptable if HR is meant to convey a spoken "a human resources manager" rather than a spoken "an aich arr manager".haven't should have an apostrophe, yes. weeks to find another position within the company, otherwise they are laid off.Given 6 weeks to find a position now is a suicide (since most groups can't hire due to the freeze). I asked them direct questions about what I needed to do to get the next promotion. There are 12 Directors in my sub and over 1000 people all scoping to one day be a Lvl 63reality, most people will leave before they get that far. I could make changes quickly and with quality. . We've negotiated thousands of offers and regularly achieve $30k+ (sometimes $300k+) increases. Levels 57 and 58 are reserved for non-permanent employees and Levels 59 and 60 are reserved for New Graduates.
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